MyDD :: Hillary please drop out

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why do you want her to keep fighting? At this point she can not win. It's a mathematical fact, so the only thing she's fighting for is a victory for McCain. Is that what you want? I'm starting to think it is.

2012 (2.00 / 1)

The idea is to bloody Obama so badly he loses to MCCain then Hillary cna come back as the "saviour" in 2012.

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama is such a great candidate (none / 0)

no worries.

by soyousay on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama is such a great candidate (none / 0)

And the Clintonistas have the nerve to compare Richardson to Judas.

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Obama is such a great candidate (none / 0)

No one is saying Obama is such a great candidate. We are saying that he's the Dem nominee whether you like it or not, and all Hillary is doing is bloodying him up to make it easier for McCain to win, and worst of all I think it's intentional.

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:27:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2012 (2.00 / 2)

Walt, your candidate has bloodied his political self with the decisions that he has made in life.
If he loses to McCain in November as the Democratic nominee, he is responsible. The blame game isn't going to fly.

by Liberty on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2012 (none / 0)

He won't lose to McCain. 2012, like all fo the Clinton firewalls, will also fail.

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2012 (none / 0)

But imagine Obama is the nominee now. Are you still attacking him and saying it's his own fault because he made some mistakes in the past? Think about that, because we're pretty close to that situation now. If you live in a reality-based world you have to realize HRC is a long shot. So why keep jumping on him? Wouldn't you at least be silent about these things if you don't want a McCain presidency? Just in case he is the nominee?

by Becky G on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2012 (none / 0)

I am going to respond to you even though you took a cheap shot implying that I am living in a fantasy-based world. The Wright situation which was created by Obama and only by Obama impacts the entire party. That is the REALITY. The blaming of others will not fly. Period. I have never attacked Obama and I have never jumped on him. I am not going to sit by and have others in the party blamed for his actions. He owns it and now the party is going to suffer for it.

by Liberty on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2012 (none / 0)

Both candidates have some history that will create problems in the GE. That's just a fact. The Repubs will love going after HRC again. I don't see where "blaming of others" is a factor. It is true that if we keep harping on our own candidate's faults we will lose in November.

by Becky G on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary please drop out (2.00 / 3)

The real arrogance here is Obama's. The idea that Hillary should step aside before she's actually lost.

Hillary doesn't need to beat him in pledged delegates, she needs to beat him in delegates. If she wins the popular vote, she can can win the majority of the supers and then the nomination.

She's drawn level in NC. She's way ahead in PA and WV, favoured in KT, Puerto Rico and slightly in IN. SD, MT and OR should go to Obama.

The Florida delegation may well be seated with half a vote each. And the remaining states should allow her to close the delegate gap and pull ahead in the popular vote.

How many times are the media going to say Hillary's dead only to see her rise again?

by liberalj on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:23:29 PM EST

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

She can only win the popular vote if she can tell us precisely the popular vote in Iowa, Nevada, Maine, and Washington.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by DTaylor on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

fortunately washington had a primary so we know the precise popular vote.

Re: Hillary please drop out (1.50 / 2)

Cheat to win.

Beauty contests have nothing to do with the primaries other than as interesting distractions.

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by liberalj on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the primary was meaningless wasn't it?

She can win the popular vote. It will be difficult, but not impossible.

Obama can probably KO her by winning IN, NC and KT or WV. But i wouldn't bet on it.

He had the chance to KO her by winning NH.
He had the chance to KO her by winning CA, MA and NJ on Feb 5th.
He had the chance to KO her by winning TX or OH.

Each time he's had the opportunity to finish this thing, he's not been able to take it.

Re: Hillary please drop out (1.00 / 1)

HE won Texas.

The only way to determine the winner in the hybrid primacaucus is by the ending delegate count.

Obama came out of Texas with the most delegates.

Obama won Texas.

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by liberalj on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:52:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He didn't win Texas. He won the most delegates, but she won the state. Because in the primary she won the most votes.

Sad that Obama relies on undemocratic caucuses for his lead over Clinton. The people powered, inclusive candidate actually relies on a less democratic system of selecting delegates.

We'll never know, but Texas suggests along with the other contests, that if every state had held a primary Hillary would be the nominee by now.

Re: Hillary please drop out (none / 0)

Maybe we should go back to all past elections and see who would have actually been the nominee if there had been all primaries instead of caucuses. Maybe we wouldn't have nominated Bill Clinton. but you know what? We've done caucuses for a long, long time and no one has seriously tried to do away with them and some states are really proud of their caucuses. So it's a very silly argument.

If HRC had had more votes, she'd be ahead now or if she had prepared for caucuses she'd be ahead now or if she had a typical candidate to run against she'd be ahead now. What good does "if" do?

by Becky G on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by Cycloptichorn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Winning the most votes counts for NOTHING. NOTHING. It's like saying in a basketball game, 'well, we had the most rebounds and blocked shots.' Great. Too bad that isn't how we keep score.

It's just the last fallback argument of a failed campaign.

by DTaylor on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ya winning the most votes in a democracy counts for "NOTHING"

Keep drinking the koolaid...

How come (none / 0)

she can not win caucuses?

She has the money, the organization!!!

Come on, why not?

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How come (none / 0)

Obama outorganized her.

He has more money and a better caucus organization.

Not everyone can get to a caucus, i think the demographics of Hillary's supporters hurts her in a caucus.

She does better where everyone can vote, he does better where participation is much lower.

by liberalj on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but (none / 0)

her beat her in tens of caucuses by HUGE margins.

He outorganized her? So I guess she was not "ready from day one"

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: but (none / 0)

She's more prepared to be President, he was more prepared to organize a grassroots movement that would win lots of caucuses.

I congratulate him, he has managed to get ahead in the pledged delegate count despite losing all the major states except his own. He's taken on the Clintons and almost won. Thats impressive.

by liberalj on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

seems (none / 0)

like a specious argument.

Part of becoming a President is convincing people to make you president. She seems to be failing at that.

Maybe she is not so prepared to be president.

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by JimR on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:59:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Same goes for Obama.

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:33:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's not going to win the popular vote and she knows it. Obama is far far ahead. Further we are running out of time. It's already spring and the next president is chosen in the fall. The republicans are uniting around McCain while Obama gets attacked by Hillary and her supporters every single day. We need our nominee NOW! By allowing this fight to continue both Democrats see their negatives rise as McCain goes unscathed and even praised by Hillary. For once in their lives the Clintons need to think of something other than themselves. If she drags Obama's negatives to the point where he loses to McCain it wont be forgotten.

Re: Hillary please drop out (none / 0)

Let's see - Edwards dropped out before he had actually lost and so did Richardson, Biden and Dodd. No one had the required number of delegates to win when they dropped out so why not stay in in case some miracle happened? This happens all the time. It's the rule, rather than the exception for candidates to drop out when they see they can't win. Many do it for the good of the party. I sure would respect the Clintons more if they thought that way. Alas, it seems they don't.

by Becky G on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by liberalj on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't remember saying that Edwards, Dodd, Richardson and Biden being told they must drop out of the race, or that they were being selfish for staying in.

And another important difference, Hillary has won almost as many votes as Obama, she's won all the big state primaries apart from Obama's home state and she's running even with him in the national polls.

The guys you mention didnt win a single primary between them, and apart from Edwards in Iowa none even came close to finishing second.

Hillary can win. She has a chance, just Obama has a better chance. Accusing Hillary of being selfish for staying in a winnable race isn't fair.

She does not have to quit, BUT ... (1.50 / 2)

she does have to stop the nasty outrageous attacks like the commander-in-chief threshold crap that gives ammunition to the Republicans. If she can overwhelmingly win the next primaries and convince the vast majority of super-delegates then she can become the nominee. But, this cannot happen at the expense of losing the general elections in case Obama is the nominee.

I am one of those latte liberals that Bill Clinton keeps bashing.

by ges69 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:26:30 PM EST

Re: She does not have to quit, BUT ... (2.00 / 1)

He has 2 years national experience and wants to lead the country

He isn't qualified

by DTaylor on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She does not have to quit, BUT ... (1.50 / 2)

He's been in elected office longer than she has. Being married to a president is NOT experience. If she were married to a doctor would she go around operating on people?

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

just fyi (1.50 / 2)

being First Lady does not give you much experience.

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I remember 1968 (2.00 / 2)

Anything can happen, anything. Hillary has supporters who want her to fight on. She is not mathmatically eliminated yet; neither one can reach a majority at this point.

Calls for Hillary to drop out cause many of her supporters to become even more anti-Obama.

by DaleA on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:30:39 PM EST

Re: Hillary please drop out (2.00 / 3)

Keep up the good work. You have just made Mccain an even more attractive option for me in November. You are not helping Obama by trying to force a viable candidate from dropping out of a competitive race.

by PhillyGuy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:32:23 PM EST

let me (none / 0)

understand this:

He is not helping Obama by asking Hilalry to drp out, because if she does drop out you will vote McCain.

If she does not drop out and he still wins the nomination you will probably also vote McCain.

So basically what?

Its a threat of: "Nominate Hillary or I won't vote for Obama in November"???

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not a threat. (none / 0)

It's just a personal choice. I'm sorry it upsets you so much but a lot of Democrats will never vote for Obama. That's just the way it is.

by JimR on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hmm, (2.00 / 1)

I've spoke to you about your reasons but not this guy.

Not everyone has your reasons.

Which reminds me.

How do you feel about McCain appointing super conservative judges and the effect it will have on this country.

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm good with it ... (none / 0)

so what's your point?

by plf1953 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what? (none / 0)

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You asked a question, I gave you my answer. (none / 0)

Again, whats YOUR point?

by plf1953 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:42:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The (none / 0)

original question was asked by PhillyGuy, then JimR chimed in. Who exactly are you?

by kindthoughts on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:47:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm a reader / commentor on this blog (none / 0)

And when you write publicly like this you are writing to all us.

As a participant in this group discussion, I will gladly comment and weigh in where I feel like doing so ...

And for the record, I am one of those "faithful Dems" who have always supported our party and its nominee (for 37 years) ... until Barack Obama.

I won't vote for or support Obama and will sit this one out to protest the methods Obama and his supporters have used to win the nomination, should he actually do so.

As for the Supreme court and its composition, I have voted my entire life to ensure it remained liberal.

Since Obama supporters have so egregiously damaged the Democratic party and the Clintons, I choose not to be concerned any longer with the effects of their actions.

The main effect will be to doom the party to loss in the GE.

Reap what you sew.

by plf1953 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary please drop out (1.50 / 2)

I'm not trying to help Obama. I'm trying to help the party. If Hillary were ahead I would be begging Obama to quit. And she's not a viable candidate. The only way she can win is by overruling democracy and creating the worst race riot in American history. By staying in long after the race was supposed to be decided, she's doing more damge to the democrats than all the right-wing radio hosts combined and I think it's intentional.

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

If the roles were reversed, Obama would ahve been forced out in mid-February.

Nope, no double standard here.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by democrat voter on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Help the party? HaHaHa, not true. She is a viable candidate, it is Obama that has been trying to overrule democracy not Clinton., she is fighting for votes. That is democracy, not this scream for truncating this race, that is not democracy. Race riots? If the O supporters are threatening riots, then it is they who threaten democracy, not Hillary. this threat is so much hot air. BTW if they were to riot, I doubt that would win O the WH. He would surely lose, and if you keep threatening to riot, I wonder how many voters will feel so threatened that they will bow down and vote for Obama. I bet this threat is not going to win many votes. I find this kind of threat to be the antithesis of democracy, sort of like Kenya, don't like the results, then kill some folks, that will surely get democracy for you.

democrat voter

by JimR on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:11:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you don't like it, don't vote for her. We've all got one vote. Begging someone to quit because you want the other guy to win is childish.

by Rumproast on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

plf1953, who said upthread that they had no problem with McCain appointing super conservative supreme court justices troll rated greenboy's comment, which clearly didn't deserve it.

That's, ummm, funny (?).

Umm , lets be clear ... Greenboy's comment is (none / 0)

whining and unnecessarily trashes Hillary, all the while attempting to appear "unbiased" and impartial.

And then he/she spews out trash like Hillary is "overruling democracy" and "creating race riots" and "damaging the democrats" and "staying in long after the race was supposed to be decided" ...

What childish, immature drivel.

Of course this post should be troll rated.

What is more deserving of a troll rating than this crap.

by plf1953 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by Cycloptichorn on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bull. You threaten b/c it's the only threat that you have, the only power you can display. It's childish and for the vast majority of Dem voters, not worth worrying about.

Tell me, what policies would make you vote for McCain over Obama? Specifically.

by Check077 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:38:02 PM EST

Keep going Hillary--never give up. We're in it until the end which ENDS AT 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...

Re: Hillary please drop out (2.00 / 2)

I am sick to death of these posts that tell Hillary to drop out of the race when Hillary has actually gotten more democratic votes than Obama. The very fact that Obama has not united the democratic party is the very reason that you are screaming so loudly for her to quit. If she were to quit, then he could in fact claim his crown.

But not so fast, he has no more claim to the SDs than she does. You say the will of the people, so what about Richardson, whose state went for Clinton, yet he decided in his endorsement to support Obama. You thought that was great, but the will of the people? You think that the support from Kennedy, Kerry and Patrick was great, but wait, Mass went 10 points for Hillary, what about the will of the people? You say the will of the people, but what about 2.2 million voters who went to the polls in Mich and Fl and now O supporters don't even count those votes, what about the will of the people?

Where is any consistency in your argument. there is none. This race does go on and do you know why? Because the will of the people, all the people, has not yet been determined, and more than half of the will of the people have in fact voted for Hillary. So the will of the people is only the will you have for your candidate. It is not the will of the people at all.

democrat voter

by democrat voter on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:47:18 PM EST

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where is your data showing Hillary got more democratic votes? The only reason she's has had any recent success at all is because Rush Limbaugh has been leading a movement to keep the race going by getting republicans to vote for Hillary. But I'm not here to quible over who has more of a right to the nomination. The bottom line is Hillary CAN NOT win democratically. She would have to win all the remaining contests by a 30 point land slide to catch Obama, so her only hope is overrule the will of the people and deny a democratically elected black man the nomination; this may cause the worst race riot in American history. It's Spring time. It's absurd that this fight is still going on. It makes me sick to my stomach to see Republicans and even Hillary herself uniting around McCain while Obama must endure these attacks, all because Hillary wants revenge or is planning a comeback in 2012.

Greenboy, do your homework (none / 0)

Hillary leads by 500,000 votes (not incl., FL or MI) among self identified Dems - go to RCP, take the vote totals then go to the exit polls and see vote by party affiliation and DO THE MATH.

Its laughable that you attribute Hillary's success to Limbaugh when it is Obama who has the overt "Dem for a Day" strategy of winning Repub votes so he can claim the delegates in non-essential states.

Hillary will win the Dem nomination when the SuperDs put her over the finish line because they become convinced that BO can't win the GE and she can.

"worst race riot in American history?" WTF are you talking about?

Is this now the Obamabots' new intimidation tactic? to threaten race riots if their candidate doesn't get the nomination?

If so, I say "bring it on!"

I, as a 50 yo white male professional, will gladly "riot" against the anarchy and oppression of the Obamamasses.

by plf1953 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 02:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

It's no threat. It's merely going by historical precedent.

When the people's choice in 1968 was thrown out in favor of a siotting vice president, the police created a riot in Chicago.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:48:00 PM EST

Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.

You're comparing apples to pork chops.

Florida and Michigan broke the rules and were punished the same way other states have been punished in the past for the same transgression.

It's completely disingenuous to consider the failure to seat FLand MI as anything other than 100% fair. In fact, to seat them and alter the rules after the fact would be worse than Hillary winning via fiat of the Super Delegates.

by Walt Starr on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by americanincanada on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 12:50:11 PM EST

Hillary should not drop out. She and Obama are splitting the votes right now...almost half the party would prefer her and there is no arguing that point. This is a close race precisely because not everyone loves Obama.

he can'tput her away...he can't close the deal...even after 11 straight wins and a press corp that fawns over him he still can't get more than half the country...please.

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:04:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The point is she can't win the nomination, so all she is doing is helping McCain, probably out of revenge that another dem would dare take her crown, and/or so she can make a comeback in 2012. If she had a chance to win mathematically that would be one thing, but to knowingly destroy the party when you have no chance of winning is reprehensible. If the dems lose in November it will be all her fault and she wont be welcome anywhere near the democratic party ever again, because it's absurd for the race to not be over by now. It's Spring for God's sake.

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:27:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No the point is Obama has the most votes and will continue to have the most votes and in a democracy we elect the person with the most votes, not the persn who thinks she can just inherrit the presidency from her husband or his his father. Someone needs to tell Hillary and George W. Bush that America is a democracy not a monarchy.

by Trickster on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:14:20 PM EST

(1) "the paper" is flat-out wrong if it says what you say it said.

(2) It's the Obama campaign making the personal attacks, not the Clinton campaign. Really, there's no comparison, his campaign is much much more negative.

by JimR on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:14:40 PM EST

I guess he/she thinks that Blacks are going to riot like that's the only way they know how to deal with something they don't like.

It sounds pretty prejudiced to me.

by Zebra01 on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:49:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think that's the implication, which is really offensive and borders on racial profiling.

Moreover, all the exit polls have shown that the strong majority of AAs would be happy with Hillary.

by greenboy on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 01:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not if the election is stolen from someone who won the most votes and the most elected delegates.

Re: Hillary please drop out (2.00 / 1)

Oh dear, another tiresome "Hillary please drop out" rant. This thing is far from over. If you want instant gratification, buy a scratch off lottery ticket or something.

by Lacy Davenport on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 03:53:38 PM EST